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The PMT 'Dex: Introduction, Overview and Focus

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Nov. 26th, 2008 | 04:47 pm
posted by: holzerhedrpca in pimp_my_team

o hai thar!

Welcome to the kickoff of the Pimp My Team 'Dex Project, where we'll attempt to build a database of Pokémon movesets geared towards Wi-Fi players and those who don't necessarily play hard and fast by the tier listings that are provided by Smogon or other sites that are based more off Shoddy Battle or other online simulators. In the spirit of the mission statement of this community, that we help people win with their favorites, these movesets will be geared towards a game featuring not just the OU standards but other offbeat critters seen in Wi-Fi battle very often, like your general Poliwraths, Arcanines, Johto starters etc.

Before we get started though, we need to have a plan, a sort of focus to get started. Wi-Fi battling is so varied and diverse. It's not nearly as centralized the battling communities that the other sites are based-upon. The best thing to do would be to base it off what our partner battling community, pokewifitourney, would require and use. The problem there is that PWT doesn't carry the same standard rules for each tournament.

So, there are a few things we need to decide before we start putting this together. Here's the handy bullet list:

- What tier list are we going to use, if any?
- What clauses should we consider to be standard for Wi-Fi battling purposes?
- What NFEs are we going to include on the list?
- Who is going to decide what movesets are included in the list (other than myself, of course)?

And now, after the jump, each bullet point more in-depth:

- What tier list are we going to use, if any?

Well, the easy answer would be just use Smogon's, but at the same time, I've found that there's more than a few Wi-Fi users who scoff at their tier listing, if only because they don't think Garchomp should be 00ber.

There are options here, but the question we have to ask is, do we even need a tier system? I admit, there's gotta be something satisfying about taking down someone's Lugia or Palkia with, say, Electrode or Kingdra, and Rain Dance/Sunny Day teams would be a lot easier to construct with unlimited access to Kyogre and Groudon, respectively. The flip-side to that is that people would then be tempted to run teams with all 00bers and they'd be unstoppable, regardless of skill level. I do think a tier system needs to be in place for that reason.

But what tier system should we use? Should it be Smogon's, verbatim? The plus to this option would be that it's ready made and involves no work on our end. While that sounds tempting, it's also not going to be a list that's representative of our habits. For one, a lot of critters are used there based on their utilization of Hidden Powers that they can program themselves in Shoddy. While IVs and HP types/power can be manipulated on the DS game using AR or another cheat device, some people are plain opposed to that kind of hacking, while others just don't have access to it. Access to HP can make or break a critter's usefulness according to that tier listing, and it may not be reflective of its usefulness in the Wi-Fi environment.

Should we use our own usage-based system, which could be very hard to tabulate, seeing that tournaments at PWT aren't always OU-styled and often have themes? This might be the most ideal way of doing things, but it'd be almost impossible to tabulate.

Finally, should we tabulate our own tier list based on something other than usage, like a combination of base stats, movepool or ability? This would involve a lot of theorymoning that may or may not be true in real life, but it might just be the best realistic option. We do have some of the best and brightest minds outside of the Smogon/Serebii community and some who actually do post there and are respected there.

- What clauses should we consider to be standard for Wi-Fi battling purposes?

This is probably the most important thing to consider when deciding a direction for this 'Dex. The Clauses in play will ultimately decide what moves and items we can allow when we finalize each moveset.

The list of clauses is long: Sleep Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, HaxItem Clause, Legal Clause, Freeze Clause, 00ber Clause, Focus Sash/Choice Clause, Item Clause, Self KO Clause, Species Clause

The inclusion of what clauses we end up deeming as "standard" will have a great effect of how the movesets are going to be posted. Personally, I only have use for Sleep, Legal, Uber and Self KO Clauses, but I have a feeling this could get a bit heated...

- What NFEs are we going to include on the list?

Scyther, Pikachu, Clamperl and Trapinch are no-brainers, but are there really any other NFEs that we can go with? I know it's tempting to include Dragonair/Shelgon, Murkrow, Magmar et al. because of faster speeds or better typings, but would it be worth it? How about Hippopotas or Snover being allowed in UU (current rules "over there" ban them from UU because their evolutions are OU/BL... that would be a debate for the clause section though)? If we can get a compelling enough moveset though, we can include them.

- Who is going to decide what movesets are included in the list (other than myself, of course)?

Anyone who wants to and isn't a total n00b to competitive battling. Of course, cactuarjoe and profhydron are more than welcome to give the final say since they're both well-versed in this thing.

So, once again, welcome to the project. Hopefully, this 'Dex will be a successful one, and we can provide a complete repository for the Wi-Fi battler who wants to go into battle with their team and doesn't care what tier it is.

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Comments {6}

wat

(no subject)

from: lexiluda
date: Nov. 26th, 2008 11:06 pm (UTC)
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As far as the tier thing goes, couldn't you just use smogon's as a base and then modify it as you see fit?

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TH, boyeeeee

(no subject)

from: holzerhedrpca
date: Nov. 26th, 2008 11:36 pm (UTC)
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That's an option as well, although I think if that happens, it's going to end up being just one big debate on whether Garchomp should be OU or 00ber :)

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wat

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from: lexiluda
date: Nov. 27th, 2008 01:25 am (UTC)
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That's easy, make a separate tier to put him in! It contains Garchomp, Ditto and Tropius.

Now just to think of a name!

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TH, boyeeeee

(no subject)

from: holzerhedrpca
date: Nov. 27th, 2008 02:04 am (UTC)
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The Super Awesome Happy Fun Tier?

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Darkloid_Blues

(no subject)

from: maverickz3r0
date: Nov. 27th, 2008 12:08 am (UTC)
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Tiers: Let's modify Smogon's as we see fit. They do have a decent base for them, they just neglect the lower tiers which is something we won't do.

Sleep/Evasion/Self-KO/Legal ARE all that's needed. It'd be awfully difficult to base a strategy off freezing, say, and while I dislike OHKO moves and Choice items, they're not gamebreaking. If anything I'd add in Item Clause but not everyone considers that standard. Oh, and Uber. >> I like Evasion Clause because DT hax ARE annoying.

Anything significantly different from its evolution within reason. Dragonair and Shelgon are okay of course since they lack that 4x weakness and possess different abilities than Dragonite and Salamence. That's of course not a reason to add Metapod or Cascoon though. I believe Eevee itself should also be viable.

Oh good on the last part; I use some very unconventional movesets in places and I want to see what people do with them.

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A. T. Carnifex

(no subject)

from: cl
date: Dec. 2nd, 2008 03:12 am (UTC)
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- What tier list are we going to use, if any?
I agree that we could just modify Smogon's to suit. It would be less effort to start from a base rather than entirely from scratch. I think even if we did that instead, it would likely result in fairly similar placements for many species.

- What clauses should we consider to be standard for Wi-Fi battling purposes?
I personally consider Sleep Clause, Evasion Clause and Legal Clause to be the "default rules," as it were, for reasons of common courtesy: players generally agree that it's boring, frustrating, and in general tedious to play through a match in which, say, one side's entire team is asleep, or people's attacks keep missing every turn and nothing is really happening, or someone busts out a team of six Wonder Guard Sableye. Beyond that, players work can it out between themselves for individual matches, like in the cases of OHKO Clause, Item Clause, Luck Items Clause (guess that's called the Hax Items Clause here), Species Clause, and so on; those things may annoy some players a lot and others not at all.

- What NFEs are we going to include on the list?
This is a tough call. Other than the obvious ones listed, I guess I'd say as a rough guideline, any NFE species that can be played differently from its evolved form... although what would constitute "different enough" I'm not sure. Maybe we could include the more "uncommon" NFEs by request? Would that work? So if someone wanted there to be, I don't know, sets for Eevee or something, they could request that Eevee be added.

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